24hours of lemons

That thing was 2ar swapped? I wonder what kind of penalties it received.

https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/5225541

Yes, that is my 2ar-fe test mule. It gets zero penalty laps. Class A in Lemons is flippin' fast as hell. 

Our car makes 205rwhp and weighs 1995lbs fully fueled up without driver so we've got a power to weight of 8.5lb/hp and the car consistently holds 1.2g's in the corners. and even with that, if you look at that link you sent, we are car #97. We blew an axle apart and it took about 1hr to fix it so we only got 31st place but look at our best lap average speed: 79.372 with a time of 1.47.948 and the best time is about 4.5 seconds better than that yet.

I sincerely believe that lemons Class A is the fastest racing in this type of racing (amateur wheel to wheel endurance racing). 205rwhp may not sound like a ton of power but 8.5lb/hp is up there for performance cars.

Were we stand right now we've got just barely enough power that we could bring it together for a class A victory but a bit more would help. Mostly we need more fuel range. I need to fit a 24gal tank in there. Right now we can drive the car about an hour fourty minutes on ~10 gal so a 24gal tank and some better pickups than the factory has to not starve when there's a few gallons left would let us go about 4 hours on a tank which is great, most tracks you need 3.5hrs endurance to minimize stops so having 4 hours means you can minimize stops and wait for a full course yellow before pitting.

The car also still has power steering and fantastic wilwood brakes that are very confidence inspiring so the car is super easy to drive for hours at the limit.

I have heard of the 24 hous of Lemons at Laguna Seca in Monterey, but thought that was a silly race with price/value limit of $500 per vehicle (though never enforced) that takes place during the "holy week" of the Pebble Beach Concourse.   I'd love to go someday,  but really don't want to brave the crowds and traffic of that venue.  I've seen some video clips on tv and it looks like a riot . . . A jolly good time.

It sounds like the lemons you write of is a lot more serious.  Also sounds like fun.

It's honestly hard to explain, you should really attend one to check it out. The pits are full of great camaraderie, it's just a giant family reunion several times a year.

Class A is Serious without being stupid about it, it's mostly just really fast cars but keep in mind this is mixed class racing. Class B and Class C are slower cars which bring some atmosphere to the party. 

The $500 limit is pretty loose in class A but also note the rules and the way you can sell parts off the donor to get to $500. with creative accounting you can build pretty much anything you want and go race it. 

This is the same kind of race that i showed up with my MKII MR2 with a WWII radial airplane engine and this thing was a real crowd pleaser:

(article about the car here: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15361887/how-to-get-a-24-hours-of-lemons-budget-exemption-stuff-a-radial-aircraft-engine-in-a-toyota-mr2/ )

So whatever kind of racing you're into, as long as you want to do 14.5-24hours of it at a time, go racing in lemons. You can't beat wheel to wheel racing.

Holy prop-wash, Marcman!   You're a freekin' genius! Thanks for sharing the link to the article!

my buddies and i always talk about doing a lemons car... but i don't think we realize the extent of the dedication it takes to prep the car and keep it running the day of the race... i would like to attend one someday to watch... 

is the more serious lemon racing the Chump Car? 

Kamlung, debating which is more serious is like trying to argue with someone what their favorite hot wings are. Everyone has a different answer and that answer is right for them. Personally i like the atmosphere in the pits at a lemons race way more than a chump car race and i haven't checked out any of the other competing series. It would be a good idea for you to go check out a few of the races before making a decision on one. The nice thing is generally a Lemons legal chassis will be legal in other series since they are the original and i think biggest one still but it certainly won't be competitive. Chump car has a points system that you really need to optimize your car for in order to be competitive in their series. They care about things like brake costs and tire/wheel costs where lemons does not. It is true that brakes do make a car faster so i see where Chump car is coming from but when dealing with a bunch of amateurs, why not let them spend as much as they want on brakes instead of limiting them?

Any of these races usually come down to seconds between 1st and 2nd place after many hours of racing. So they are as serious as you want them to be. Winning is hard and has a lot to do with race preparation and pit strategies. Chump car has a minimum pit time which negates some of that strategy, lemons does not. You can certainly argue that makes chump car safer in that regard, trying to make a fast pit stop is a very easy place to screw up.

As for the amount of time it takes to prep a car, i usually start 3 months before the race, wrench about 4-6 weekends and then just drive the car around listening for squeaks and rattles and fixing them before the race. so a 4 race year is a very busy year. But i also know teams that spend a weekend on the car just before the race and then go racing. Those teams are generally more likely to break something on race day but I'm sure some of them make it work.

Posted by: Marc

As for the amount of time it takes to prep a car, i usually start 3 months before the race, wrench about 4-6 weekends and then just drive the car around listening for squeaks and rattles and fixing them before the race. so a 4 race year is a very busy year. But i also know teams that spend a weekend on the car just before the race and then go racing. Those teams are generally more likely to break something on race day but I'm sure some of them make it work.

i think this right here is what caused us to not even start yet... 4 of the 5 guys we have all have small children and other obligations at home on the weekend on top of our day jobs during the week... realistically it won't be a starter for us for another few years at a minimum... the 1 guy that doesn't have kids already races so has track experience and time to dedicate... 

i wouldn't want to be the team you described trying to cram everything into a weekend and the race is a nightmare with break downs and repairs... from a parts perspective, we have everything we need... it'd just be the time to put everything together... and a cage... can't forget the cage.. 

Yeah, i fully understand where you're coming from. I've got two little kids myself and it really does get overwhelming sometimes to balance everything. 

The only thing i can recommend if you are still interested is just find a team that is doing arrive and drives. Lots of teams are willing to accept other drivers for anywhere between $300 and $1000 for the weekend with about $600 being the average it seems. It's a cheap way (time & money) to still do it and still have a blast but you're at the mercy of someone else's car maintenance. 

I have found though that the big key to running a cheap car is to pick the lightest car you can find. it's easier on brakes, suspension, tires, wheels, suspension bushings ... the list just goes on. the difference between maintaining an MKII MR2 weighing 2600lbs and a MKIII MR2 weighing 1995 lbs was between 1-3k per race less. part of that was the E153 breaking all the time too but that wasn't the only big difference.

If you do run a spyder, convertibles are the easiest by a large margin to put a cage into. 

Posted by: Marc

As for the amount of time it takes to prep a car, i usually start 3 months before the race, wrench about 4-6 weekends and then just drive the car around listening for squeaks and rattles and fixing them before the race.

Uh, Marc...I've ridden in that car...there is no way you'd HEAR squeaks OR rattles 🤯 🤫 😎 

Is that you driving in the track pic?

On the MKII w/radial engine...you are a madman... 🍻  Clicked the link, read and clicked some more...truly magnanimous, my friend! You are the man!!!

You just have to get in tune with the car, the exhaust noise blends away after a while and then you can hear the squeaks and rattles. and possibly feel the vibrations from something off balance.

I'm not 100% sure who is driving in that picture but my helmet is white and that helmet is black so it definitely is not me. 

I'm pretty sure these two are me:

As for the radial engine, i enjoy doing things people say should not be done when it comes to cars. it's a bit of a bad habit but i enjoy the hell out of it.

Posted by: Marc

Yeah, i fully understand where you're coming from. I've got two little kids myself and it really does get overwhelming sometimes to balance everything. 

The only thing i can recommend if you are still interested is just find a team that is doing arrive and drives. Lots of teams are willing to accept other drivers for anywhere between $300 and $1000 for the weekend with about $600 being the average it seems. It's a cheap way (time & money) to still do it and still have a blast but you're at the mercy of someone else's car maintenance. 

I have found though that the big key to running a cheap car is to pick the lightest car you can find. it's easier on brakes, suspension, tires, wheels, suspension bushings ... the list just goes on. the difference between maintaining an MKII MR2 weighing 2600lbs and a MKIII MR2 weighing 1995 lbs was between 1-3k per race less. part of that was the E153 breaking all the time too but that wasn't the only big difference.

If you do run a spyder, convertibles are the easiest by a large margin to put a cage into. 

thanks for taking the time to share your expertise... i have come across some postings on fb for when they need fill in drivers... i always thought about maybe doing it to trial but then i'm not exactly fast so they might not give me a lot of seat time if they are serious and trying to win... 

those are some great tips on car selection as well... i'll make sure to remember that... 

Most teams are just out there looking to have fun. The biggest criteria is just not being an asshole. So don’t let lack of experience hold you back. There’s only one way to get the experience, everyone has a first time  

Just be honest with the team when you sign up and have fun. 

If you have any other questions feel free to reach out. I’m always happy to bring more people into this sport.