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I thought I would bring this discussion here because it has been brought up on another forum and there is some misinformation being thrown.
First lets get one thing out of the way. All new engines undergo continuous development during its life cycle which is a normal process. Generally the last revision of an engine will be the best simply because there is a much bigger pool to draw from to improve on the design. It doesn't mean that early engine are faulty but it is possible that they might be more prone to specific issues statistically.
The 1ZZ engine predates the Spyder and when the Spyder was being produced you got what you got and there is a possibility that there were some revisions. In regards to the oil consumption there was a piston change in December 2001. This means that there are some early production 2002 model year cars that don't have the newer revision piston. I believe you can tell if your car made the cut based on the production date of the vehicle and there is a listing of VIN numbers on the web to confirm if you received the revised pistons.
Anecdotally we have seen the later 1ZZs burn less oil on the whole but it doesn't mean that early engines are doomed. I got 106k before swapping out and although it used a little more oil than I would like it wasn't that bad and I have seen a first production Spyder with over 300k miles that just started to burn oil on the original engine. I believe as long as the car runs quality synthetic oil early on this should not create the occlusions that cause massive oil consumption.
It would also appear that the pistons were changed once more in 04/2005 but by this time Spyders were no longer imported into the country as the last production would probably have ended in 2004 as 2005 model year. I believe that the Spyder being produced in other markets for 2006 probably had the last revision of the pistons.
Here is a good thread that shows the difference in piston design.
https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/is-the-mr2-spyder-unreliable.29239/page-2#post-472210
Topic starter
Posted : December 13, 2019 11:54 am
Sofar not have found the VIN list for the piston mods 😭
Posted : December 13, 2019 2:39 pm
Sofar not have found the VIN list for the piston mods 😭
Its there I believe in a TSB or some other documentation. I have seen it long ago. We just need to find it. The engine number is what you use to date the engine but on the whole you are pretty much in the clear with the production date of the car which is on the sticker if you have the original engine. If its between months then I would further confirm with the engine number.
Most people believe earlier engines are defective which is not the case at all. A real defect gets a fix from a recall and there have been many cases where that has happened and millions of vehicles are recalled.
Even if you don't have the better pistons its not certain doom, just need to use synthetic oil with good cleaning properties.
Topic starter
Posted : December 13, 2019 3:16 pm
Sofar not have found the VIN list for the piston mods 😭
but on the whole you are pretty much in the clear with the production date of the car which is on the sticker if you have the original engine. If its between months
Using the VIN plate on my car I do not get any further than yéar 2002 of production and that it is model year 08/2000 - 08/2002.
Am I missing a digit or other field on the plate?
Posted : December 14, 2019 7:25 am
Check your door Jamb sticker for the vehicle production date and month.
Topic starter
Posted : December 14, 2019 10:35 am
Will do with daylight tomorrow.
Thanks!
I noticed on MR2roc you were wondering if all MR-S cars were made in Japan and the answer is yes. It was made in an older smaller factory for limited production and one of the. more interesting reasons for this manufacturing was a Toyota exercise in new kind of car development for the youth market. It also has a slightly better 1ZZ motor than many of the 1ZZ motors built overseas for other applications like the Corolla. It is speculated that the MR-S was not a profitable car for Toyota and it wasn’t suppose to be. It was probably made to fill the brands inventory and legacy products until Toyota decided they no longer wanted to be a sports car manufacture and concentrate on mass eco friendly cars which is what they do best.
Topic starter
Posted : December 14, 2019 3:32 pm
Will do with daylight tomorrow.
Thanks!
It was probably made to fill the brands inventory and legacy products until Toyota decided they no longer wanted to be a sports car manufacture and concentrate on mass eco friendly cars which is what they do best.
....and then they came up with the GT86 with Subaru and now the Supra with BMW. Wanna bet on the mk4 MR2 with... euhmmmm... PSA who´d lóve a competitor for the Alpine. The three brothers version 21st c.
Posted : December 14, 2019 4:28 pm
Will do with daylight tomorrow.
Thanks!
It was probably made to fill the brands inventory and legacy products until Toyota decided they no longer wanted to be a sports car manufacture and concentrate on mass eco friendly cars which is what they do best.
....and then they came up with the GT86 with Subaru and now the Supra with BMW. Wanna bet on the mk4 MR2 with... euhmmmm... PSA who´d lóve a competitor for the Alpine. The three brothers version 21st c.
They will co develop but not manufacture. What this means is they will send consultants, give them proven technology to make the car up to Toyota standards, run durability testing and then have it made to order car but it’s still not a Toyota. Toyota also has Mazda make cars for them as well and they are less than a Toyota.
It’s so bad that BMW had poor quality welds.
If the Supra was made in Toyota Motor City it would be a better car. Only BMW fanatics think that German engineering is better. It’s worse than American.
Topic starter
Posted : December 14, 2019 4:50 pm
They will co develop but not manufacture. What this means is they will send consultants, give them proven technology to [b]make the car up to Toyota standards, run durability testing and then have it made to order[/b] car but it’s still not a Toyota. Toyota also has Mazda make cars for them as well and they are less than a Toyota.
It’s so bad that BMW had poor quality welds.If the Supra was made in Toyota Motor City it would be a better car. Only BMW fanatics think that German engineering is better. It’s worse than American.
Obviously something going wrong there then.
For the rest all of the car industry is highly incestuous. Just about all of the brands are (co)owned by conglomerates that have joint ventures on various levels, from developing a platform, engine to whole cars. You already mention the sub-letting of production capacity. Then there are the very few independent assembly plants who are contrated by sometime even compateitors at the same time. The former DAF plant in Born is a perfect example of the latter.
Posted : December 15, 2019 6:30 am
Toyota from what I have read is still a family business that takes pride in making quality vehicles which are the best in the world. The good thing about the 86 is the manufacture Fuji heavy industries who makes quality cars and that is why the 86 worked. BMW on the other hand is probably one of the worst manufacturers of automobiles and it’s a good thing they don’t build bridges.
That Supra recall is so bad they can’t even fix it and may have to issue new cars. Ultimately it is Toyota’s fault for having brought shame to the brand. Toyota needs to keep it in house with workers that take pride in what they do.
Topic starter
Posted : December 15, 2019 8:57 am
I´ve been a Quality 9000 consultant. Assisted companies to understand and chart their production process so they could certify their control of it.
Toyota was and is a textbook example of just about everyting. They basically saved Porsche in a role as consultants to get their process under control, rationalise that when they were on the brink of bancruptcy. I find it well, basically beyond my comprehension that Toyota ´allows´ the Supra being ´broken beyond repair´.
Posted : December 15, 2019 10:07 am
I´ve been a Quality 9000 consultant. Assisted companies to understand and chart their production process so they could certify their control of it.
Toyota was and is a textbook example of just about everyting. They basically saved Porsche in a role as consultants to get their process under control, rationalise that when they were on the brink of bancruptcy. I find it well, basically beyond my comprehension that Toyota ´allows´ the Supra being ´broken beyond repair´.
You are the only one I know that knows this information about Porsche. I read book that documented the restructuring of Porsche when they were building the Boxster. They didn’t disclose directly that the consultants were from Toyota but they hinted that they were from the largest Japanese manufacture of cars. I often wondered about the timing of the Boxster and the MR-S and if it was coincidental.
I believe Toyota is so big now they don’t want to dominate their competitors but want to help them improve their products. Toyota’s philosophy on making a product should be an example of why it’s not good to gouge the consumer and to make sure deserving people are in the right position in the operation.
American workers suffer under do nothing middle management and they get the blame for being lazy when it’s proven wrong when they work for a Japanese car companies on American soil. They tried to get the Automotive unions to absorb them and the workers rejected the unions because they liked the how the company treated them.
Topic starter
Posted : December 15, 2019 10:33 am
If Toyota is so great and perfect, why would they "allow" a bad, unreliable Supra to be released?
The answer is likely that they didn't, and there's much more to it. Like when they said they made sure the car is up to their standards, maybe they weren't lying. Maybe the Supra really is reliable and up to their standards. I don't see a reason to disbelieve that yet.
2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, 2021 Lexus UX 250h F Sport
Posted : December 15, 2019 5:32 pm
I think Toyota dropped the ball. Apparently there is another major safety recall that can result in a crash from a failing headlight control unit. This is a very bad start and possibly the tip of the iceberg. This is completely normal for BMW because their electrical systems suck.
Topic starter
Posted : December 15, 2019 7:22 pm
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