Struts and mounts

OEM or bust. I got some Monroes for the rear and some no names for the front. Monroes are trash, studs are awful quality and strip easy. Even those that did not strip are rough and the nuts go on hard. The no names were surprisingly good, had a quality sealed bearing and made 0 noises. However they do not sell them anymore. Also they scratched the hell out of the inside of my TRD strut bar because they were too tall. Switched to OEM and sold them, person who bought them is running them for a few years with no issues. 

Moral of the story: Go OEM for the mounts. 

I believe some say you want to push the strut piston in all the way and let it retract a few times to "prime" the strut. Also grab yourself some KYB boots.

Already got the boots. Ordered strut mounts, but ignored the OEM advice because the prices on this particular part are downright criminal.

I see a lot of OE parts that are maybe 10 or 15% higher than aftermarket, and I can easily accept that, but I balk at 300 to 400%. That's BS. The OE mounts were twice the cost of the damn struts, and are basically a steel plate, a big washer (the bearing), a bit of rubber, and three bolts. No hydraulics, and not exactly micro-precision parts.  But they want $130 each. That's absurd.

I can drill a hole out, cut down a bolt, chase threads or add a spacer to save $100... EACH.

I might regret this, I know... Save the flames for when I come back asking how to fix my mistake, LOL.

I did see KYB mounts. 5212, I think was the part number. Also saw that these are the same parts as the 00-05 Celica (believable, since thats basically what a Spyder is), and the 04-06 Prius. Can anyone verify that? Because, you know, I might be shopping again in a week. 😞

Monroe Front Mounts:

Required the addition of a DIY hardened metal spacer.

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Monroe Strut Mounts With OEM KYB Strut

According to KYB, they did not manufacture the Toyota OEM strut mounts for the Spyder, and because of that they did not and/or will not recommend any of their KYB strut mount kits.

KYB strut posts do not have a knurled part at the top of the strut post (many struts do, frequently they allow the use of an allen key); instead they have a 16 mm notch which is only 3 mm wide (which can only be accessed using a very thin, and slightly offset 16 mm open end wrench) directly below the end of the strut post underneath the cut thread that is used to attach the lock nut to the mount. No matter what you have read on the Internet about using vice grip pliers or channel locks to keep the strut post from turning, they very rarely work and/or they scar the chromed finish of the strut post; and may lead to premature strut failure.

According to the official Toyota repair guide, no spacers are used on the front strut posts.

Unfortunately, the Monroe Strut Mounts listed for the Spyders are not as thick as the OEM mounts, which leads to the problem that even with the locking nut turned to the very bottom of the threads, there is not enough tension on the mount to hold it firmly. Therefore you hear the dreaded “Thunk or Clank” whenever your front wheel goes over any imperfections in the road as the loose strut crashes into the undersized mount.  Because the locking nut is at the end of its travel, whatever torque setting you think you have achieved on the top nut of the strut post is completely illusionairy.

How Do I Know?

When I replaced my KYB struts I used the listed/recommended Monroe mount plate.  My installation followed the official Toyota repair guide.  As soon as I took a test drive I immediately heard the front strut make a “Thunk or Clank” noise.  Thinking that my torque wrench might be out of spec, I loosened all of the nuts and bolts on the struts and re-torqued them with a new electronic torque wrench (Add $150 to total cost of repairs).

So I took a second test drive and immediately head the front strut make the same “Thunk or Clank” noise again. 

Thinking that there may be some sort of defect in the new Monroe mounts, I contacted their Customer Support folks and verified that I had the right product to use on Toyota Spyders.  Then after many phone calls back and forth plus very specific proof of purchase documentation; in only a couple of months my replacement mounts came in.

Today I once again removed the struts and mounts and installed the replacement mounts…except this time I used a micrometer to measure both the thickness of the Monroe mounts plus the length of the locking nut thread. It is impossible for the Monroe strut locking nut to secure the mount properly because the threads are simply too short.

THE SOLUTION:  I took a hardened metal spacer collar and simply ground it down (start at 5 mm) until I got the exact fit I wanted. 

To avoid all of this aggravation you have to pay the extra 30-40% for the Toyota OEM parts.  Very sad to have to say that!

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If you decide to go this route, let me know and I can give you a good price on a pair of "Nearly New" Monroe front mounts.

Paul

Very much appreciated, Paul. I need some time to digest this.

I did not get Monroe. I got the rears, which are nearly unobtainium, from MWR. Got no-names for the front.

And any pain I get, I deserve. I did ask for it. Still choking on $520 for ****ing top-hats. Can't get past that. Yet.

Would another term for "hardened metal spacer" be "washer"? Wait, you said 5mm. Any estimate on the final thickness of the spacer? Alternatively, could one simply cut the threads a bit further along the strut piston so the nut will make contact? I'm thinking probably not, since there is no way to hold the piston. I dont have them in front of me, having difficulty visualizing it.

Edit: never mind the cutting more threads idea; even if it might work from a technical standpoint, it seems terribly impractical to actually do it. Spacers don't seem too awfully complex, and mindlessly simple in comparison to cutting threads on something you can't positively grip in the first place.

It was years ago when I did my suspension on my old car but I got mine at the time from shockwarehouse.com may not still offer them anymore though.

For that kind of money it makes you reconsider coilovers.

I know this might sound dumb, (I am so far beyond trying to look knowledgeable around here, lol), but what would be wrong with using a thick washer and a lock washer, if I had to? Again, I havent gotten my front mounts yet.

You mentioned a torque wrench, so right there, I feel some incompatibility with the lock washer concept, but would still appreciate some help really understanding the issue and subtleties. This is one place I would have thought the torque wrench would be set to "King Kong".

They hold the weight of the entire car on a thin shaft and nut. Gotta be quality parts. Aftermarket top hats are generally problematic with squeaks and groans from what I hear from the Corolla people. Which is why I go with OEM. It's expensive, but it's problem free. You get what you pay for. 

Posted by: @haloruler64

They hold the weight of the entire car on a thin shaft and nut. Gotta be quality parts. Aftermarket top hats are generally problematic with squeaks and groans from what I hear from the Corolla people. Which is why I go with OEM. It's expensive, but it's problem free. You get what you pay for. 

Yep, pay once, cry once...

Buy once, cry once. That rhymes 🙂 yeah those OEM mounts last a good 15+ years. Worth it.

I understand that, and under most circumstances, I would agree.  Part of my decision was a deliberate plan of taking a very few "shortcuts" right now just to get by, since I am pouring money into this car.  Yes, I might pay twice.  I might have to replace the mounts in a year, if they work at all (and they will, but modification may be necessary). 

I still need a new exhaust header because I am not gutting my upstream cats. In that case, I will buy once, cry once and probably get a more expensive part; I am looking at the PPE header currently.  On that project, I am interested in the time savings and getting it right (no accidentally leaving specks of cat dust in there) and I am willing to pay for it, as well as keep a backup header with cats in case I have trouble with The Man.

After that, I also need to buy or acquire winter wheels and tires, it is mid-August and winter is just around the corner.  But my wife just bought a new car, so I am going to take the BBS wheels off the xB and put some cheap steelies on it for the final leg of it's practical life -- it is now an in-town runabout for my son to drive to school and haul odds and ends from the hardware store and so forth.  I'll be able to save a few hundred by grabbing the BBS wheels.  BBS wheels are a waste on that xB, given it's poor appearance nowadays, but they bolt right on The Frog and have nearly-new A/S tires already installed, balanced, etc.  Already tested those, and they work fair-to-OK.  Again, pushing off the expense just a little, although I may still get new winter tires if the budget allows it by then.  Winter wheels are the last big expense for The Frog in the near future, AFAIK.  I cannot justify spending $800 a month on The Frog, seemingly without end.

So there was some consideration that went into punking out with the top hats.  If my gamble pays off and I don't have to throw these "bargain" top hats straight into the trash, the $400 I saved temporarily can buy me a PPE exhaust header that I need NOW.  I might have to buy new top hats in two years. I understand that and I accept it. But then again, I might not need to, and these might even last until the next strut job (coilovers?) where hopefully my to-do list will be empty.  Hopefully, the current cash bleed will have subsided by then, and if has not, The Frog will be somebody else's money pit by that point anyway.  That's right, The Frog, I love you like a son, but I have limits, so keep your act together buddy!

Quick couple of thoughts:

HEADER:

You can buy a Che header ---- maybe even used ---- for a fraction of the cost of the PPE header. Just in case you think that the PPE header will give you some significant performance increase, based upon Carl Becker's experience (SC Member), high performance cams, head polishing and porting, and expensive exhaust systems on his car have proved to provide a negligible performance increase. If you don't believe me, feel free to send him a PM on SC and he will confirm the above info.

Winter Tires and Rims:

There are lots of places to buy "Nearly New" winter tires  or rims for your Spyder:  SC (For Sale or Wanted AD), MR2 (For Sale or Wanted AD), Craigslist, and Ebay to name a few. My normal savings on used winter tires or used average between 50-75% and I can normally find, at least the tires, in 6 weeks or so.  BTW, there is one school of thought that believes that narrower winter tires perform better than standard width tires.

If what you are trying to do is to "Slow The Cash Burn" on Spyder expenses, you might want to just buy used winter tires and have them mounted on your regular rims. In the Washington D.C. Metro area where I live, the cost to mount and balance a set of tires is more than $150 so, keeping my winter tires on an old/steel set of rims really will save me a ton over time!

Budget Struts and/or Top hats:

In my experience, poor quality struts/poorly attached struts make it nearly impossible for cars to hold a proper alignment.  Given that the cost of a custom 4 wheel alignment here in the Washington D.C. area runs around $140 and the cost of the Yokohama  tires --- balanced and mounted --- on the front wheels of my car cost around $375; the added expense of premature tire wear and the possible cost of another (at least) front end alignment when ---- I have to rapidly replace the "Budget Priced" struts and top hats (Cha ching! Second set of removal and installation charges.); doing it "On The Cheap" costs too much for my pocketbook. (Don't be afraid to pull a "Paul" and ask the stealership for a lower selling price.  While this does not always work, most of the time I save from 10-25% off of the earlier quoted pricing --- sometimes they will throw in a reduced or free shipping/handling fee instead --- just by asking the question.)

How I Try To Save Money On Spyder Parts and Accessories:

Whenever possible, I try to buy a "Gently Used" or, in many cases "Purchased, But New Installed" part from the sources I have listed earlier.  Failing that, I work the hell out of the Internet trying to find the best possible price possible.  By "Shopping" on-line Toyota Stealerships, I can almost always beat the cost of the local dealers....even after paying shipping/handling charges.

Cost Shifting:

Whenever I buy a used car, I know going into it that I will be spending more money Right-Out-Of-The-Gate to repair or upgrade items to make the car as close to what I want as possible.  Knowing that I will be spending "Money After The Sale," my original "Spending Power" to buy a "New To Me" car is reduced accordingly.

Even knowing and doing all of the above "Cost Shifting," I routinely run out of immediately available funds.  That is when I turn to: no interest delayed payment plans (tire companies have these all the time); Pay Pal; or even EBay's (sometimes available) Delayed Payment Plans.  In a pinch, for absolute real NEEDS I have also been known to put car related purchases on my lowest interest charged credit cards.

Here Is A Message I Also Have To Tell Myself FREQUENTLY:

When it comes to making my Spyder EXACTLY what I want, I have to remind myself, over, and over, and over that there is a world of difference ---- and cash ---- between what I WANT and what I NEED.  If an immediate car-related purchase does not involve drivability or safety, it is a WANT. If an immediate car-related purchase does involve drivability or safety, it is a NEED. 

Possible Insight:

While I can't actually prove it, I strongly suspect that multiple new Spyder owners end up overspending on their cars during their initial purchase history because of their various WANTS.  Later, when sticker shock sinks in .... and they realize that they have put much more money into their Spyder than they can reasonably get back during a re-sale .... many of them try to sell their "Formerly Beloved" Spyders for much more than the market will bear.  I have yet to see anyone getting back all of the money that they have invested in their used Spyder. This is an oft repeated scenario that almost always ends very badly/sadly with, possibly, lots of spousal recriminations.

A lot of this rings true. Most everything on my list has been a need. I was prepared to dump a few bucks into the car, and not whining about it, merely being judicious. These top hats might not work out. I can handle that.

As for the PPE header, it's a buy once, cry once deal. I am not after the mythical promise of an extra 1.061 horses, I am looking at that header for the superior welds. I have not liked what I have read about the el-cheapos' shitty workmanship.

Posted by: @nottamiata

A lot of this rings true. Most everything on my list has been a need. I was prepared to dump a few bucks into the car, and not whining about it, merely being judicious. These top hats might not work out. I can handle that.

As for the PPE header, it's a buy once, cry once deal. I am not after the mythical promise of an extra 1.061 horses, I am looking at that header for the superior welds. I have not liked what I have read about the

el-cheapos' shitty workmanship.

I understand this completely! I cannot stand to pop my hood and see crappy stuff, even if the performance is the same.

I bought the rear mounts from MWR, hoping they are adequate at the least.

Changed my mind about the fronts, will be ordering OEM from NorwalkToyota. Gold mine, only $75 each, which I can tolerate even on my compressed schedule/budget. Thanks to the poster in the Mr. T thread!