[Sticky] MR2 Spyder Fluids

As of 12/28/2019 my car currently contains:

Nissan power steering fluid. I flushed the system and replaced the old fluid with Nissan Genuine E-PSF Electric Power Steering Fluid. It's been in there for about a year now and everything still works as it did before. Back on Adchat @haloruler64 was ambitious enough to organize PSF analysis through Blackstone labs and the Nissan fluid came out the closest to a chemical match as one can hope for. 

For coolant I've been using Zerex Asian Red

Engine oil is Amsoil XL 5W-30 

Transmission fluid is Amsoil 75W-90 GL4 

Brake/clutch fluid is ATE 706202 Original TYP 200 DOT 4 (because I had some leftover from bleeding the Acura)

What did I forget?

I second the transmission gear oil and power steering fluid.   I’m using both.  (Nissan psf and amsoil GL4.

For SMT system fluid, I think there are enough owners running DOT3, DOT4, or a mix the includes 8-10% Castor Oil, that there’s good evidence that all will work fine in the system.   Many people using one of these substitutes for 5 years or more.

Same with Nissan E-PSF and Amsoil GL4 haha. Also run Zerex Asian pink coolant. 

Coolant: Toyota Pink 50/50

Brake Fluid: Redline RL-600 DOT-4

Gear Oil: Redline MT-90

Motor oil: Motul 5W-30 full synthetic

Power steering is the one fluid I haven't changed, but will definitely try out that Nissan stuff... is the Toyota brand no longer available?

Toyota EH-PS fluid is long discontinued and very hard to find these days.

It is my belief that all Toyota fluids are superior for a Toyota application and are sold at a cost that seems like it's being subsidized for the owner.    

 The two fluids I would never substitute is the Toyota Red coolant because it is legendary for preserving the coolant system even under extreme service intervals where cars never had the coolant changed.  Anecdotally the pink is not as good as the red even though its service life is supposedly longer but it shows up more acidic and does go bad when it goes beyond the service interval which has shown up with a trend of  water pumps that go out much earlier after the switch was made.  I strongly believe the red fluid to be the gold standard and was formulated specific for Toyotas. It is not a one size fits all like the other fluids that claim broad compatibility because formulations are then a compromise.  You might not see any issue with running even Prestone but in the long run you might as the components corrode and deposit formation occurs. 

The other fluid I would never substitute is the Toyota red brake fluid. I strongly believe it was specifically designed for Toyota cars and trucks. It was anecdotal heresy about this fluid but now its rooted in some fact because this mysterious fluid is different then most brake fluids and has caused a TSB for some Toyota vehicles where the rubber dried out and the cause was determined to be alternative brake fluid that doesn't contain the necessary lubricant. Although it is listed as Dot 3 it contains a borate ester in its formulation which is unusual and its thought to have a boiling point higher then most typical Dot 3 but unfortunately we don't have any numbers. All I know is I highly doubt you will cook this fluid as it has fitted to much heavier vehicles in the Toyota line up and other "sports" type cars in the Lexus line up without any issue.   When I switched back to Toyota brake fluid my pedals felt right.    

 I believe that all Toyota products are manufactured to share many of the same materials  from the rubber seals, plastics, metals and so forth that the fluids are designed in such a way to be the best for the Toyota.  You can use alternative fluids but I don't think its necessarily the same, better or even cheaper to do so.  This doubt of unknowns is enough for me to stick with Toyota fluids because they are proven.  

When people make the claim its all same thats when we find ourselves with inferior choices we know little about and you will never know until many thousands of miles down the road and even then you will blame the component and not the fluid. 

A lot of discussion is going on about how Toyota WS ATF is not very good. How it has low shear strength (right term?) and low flash point. How people switch it out for stuff like Valvoline MaxLife because it's superior, and MaxLife is excellent stuff in my experience. 

I say this not because the Spyder takes ATF. But we ARE discussing Toyota fluids, and a lot of Toyota and Lexus owners are dropping WS ATF. I'm gonna need to do it on my CT200h despite its "sealed lifetime" transmission. 

Also I'd be iffy about running Toyota brake fluid on the track.

Posted by: @haloruler64

A lot of discussion is going on about how Toyota WS ATF is not very good. How it has low shear strength (right term?) and low flash point. How people switch it out for stuff like Valvoline MaxLife because it's superior, and MaxLife is excellent stuff in my experience. 

I say this not because the Spyder takes ATF. But we ARE discussing Toyota fluids, and a lot of Toyota and Lexus owners are dropping WS ATF. I'm gonna need to do it on my CT200h despite its "sealed lifetime" transmission. 

Also I'd be iffy about running Toyota brake fluid on the track.

  That might be true that it has low shear strength. I have read the argument on the Lexus board years ago and it had me wondering what I should do.   However there is not an epidemic of transmissions failing at or above 100k miles since its introduction almost 15 years ago and if there was it would be a public relations nightmare. Usually the lifetime fill is generally 100k miles service for most cars. This has been an ongoing problem with all the other manufactures like BMW that claim lifetime fill as well and there is a political reason behind it to avoid the manufacture to pay all kinds of stupid crippling environmental  penalties .  Its sad really because these penalties gets passed on to the consumer.

The number of owners that switch to the Valvoline maxlife are probably less than .1% .  Its also possible that these transmissions have been tested to wear just fine during the service interval because of the design of the transmission is good where is not going to damage because it has been extensively tested.  On the Toyota trucks the service interval is 60k miles especially for severe duty such as towing because that is what they rate it for based their failure analysis which is a good indication that Asin knows what they are doing. 

 I have about 55k miles on my car and will probably have a transmission flush done at 70k that has to be done by the dealer or Lexus mechanic that knows how to do it using the special service tools and procedure but Im going to use the WS fluid.  I think what generally happens is people get fixated on one or two aspects about fluid and have a narrow minded view missing the rational of other aspects of the formulation that might be beneficial.  

There are millions  Toyotas and Lexus cars on the road that continue to use the  WS transmission fluid and they are still going strong, some of which probably never had the fluid changed.  Asin makes durable transmissions and rarely do they have to be replaced, Honda on the other hand  has always had weak transmission and frequent fluid replacement doesn't save them from a bad design.  I have followed the trends of cars like mine that have very high milage and the transmission have not been problematic on WS fluid but if it was I would consider alternatives at that point in time. 

My "concern" (AKA irrelevant thought) is basically, use Toyota WS ATF or Valvoline? I've used Valvoline in my Corolla and it is great stuff. A lot of people do, 7th gen Corolla guys are into the stuff. But WS ATF wasn't around back then. Tempted to put it in the CT200h at 60k miles, which is when Prius guys generally do a drain and fill. It's not like WS ATF is specially formulated for certain transmissions because it goes everywhere. 6 speed, 8 speed, even eCVT. 

Posted by: @haloruler64

My "concern" (AKA irrelevant thought) is basically, use Toyota WS ATF or Valvoline? I've used Valvoline in my Corolla and it is great stuff. A lot of people do, 7th gen Corolla guys are into the stuff. But WS ATF wasn't around back then. Tempted to put it in the CT200h at 60k miles, which is when Prius guys generally do a drain and fill. It's not like WS ATF is specially formulated for certain transmissions because it goes everywhere. 6 speed, 8 speed, even eCVT. 

As far as the WS ATF from what I understand it was  formulated for newer  Toyota sealed transmission units that use computer control and not backwards compatible for previous Toyotas that use different AFT fluid.  I know the BMW had its own special fluid for their sealed units and it is even more difficult to change.   

The specs for transmission fluids change all the time due to advancements in the transmissions that require different formulations.  Some are backwards compatible and some are not.  I find it interesting that there is a lot of hearsay about owners spouting off on the lifetime fill but not actually reading the Toyota literature.   

It would seem that it is recommend to change the fluid every 60k miles if there is more city driving which is pretty much most owners.  Even though they say its a lifetime fluid they want to you to get it checked at 100k miles. This is pretty much a fluid change without saying its a fluid change so they can wing it though the loop hole of not paying their environmental fees. 

Every time I try to second guess something because of the hyperbolic manic behavior of owners I find the devil in the details. This is why I try to stay with what has been proven to work for millions of car rather than an adaptation by a smaller community that could have long term consequences.  I don't trust myself to second guess the engineers until there is a known issue that is widely apparent where a change in fluid is the obvious corrective measure. 

    Engineers can and do make mistakes but its usually the design of the components and usually the better fluids tend to be the remedy. 

Is Synchromesh fluid still acceptable for our manual transmissions? MWR recommends it for street-driven applications where MT90 would be overkill.

Posted by: @labcoatguy

Is Synchromesh fluid still acceptable for our manual transmissions? MWR recommends it for street-driven applications where MT90 would be overkill.

The most popular consensus is Amsoil GL4. It’s really nice stuff. 

This stuff? https://www.amsoil.com/p/manual-transmission-transaxle-gear-lube-75w-90-mtg/

Posted by: @labcoatguy

This stuff? https://www.amsoil.com/p/manual-transmission-transaxle-gear-lube-75w-90-mtg/

Thats the stuff.