Cannot disengage parking brake!

Parking brake issues are very common on the Spyder. Even without adverse weather I had a cable seize halfway engaged, and my other cable was snapped when I got the car.

Posted by: @haloruler64

Parking brake issues are very common on the Spyder. Even without adverse weather I had a cable seize halfway engaged, and my other cable was snapped when I got the car.

Yes, I distinctly remember seeing more than one post about these, but have been addressing other issues and not read those.

Waiting until lunch to start churning the infos. Stupid work, eating up my life...

Mine are definitely seized up, at least one anyway, but it felt like both. Hard to be sure, but I do know the PB works; reverse and 1st gear both really struggled to even move the car two inches.

Hoping the fix is easy. Right now, I can't even drive it to my guy, LOL.

The fix is not easy doing it by the book because you have to drop the gas tank and even then the mounting point is hard to access however "short cut method" I used and others have adopted  makes it much easier with a small remnant left behind.  The cables are common to fail on all three generations but its not really a big deal as it usually doesn't happen all the time or the opposite cable.  I had to replace one early in ownership and after that both cables have been good for the last 15 years of ownership so even it its common the likelihood of it happening again is extremely rare. Some people wanted to use some kind of baggies and all sorts of other rubberized protectors thinking it was going to happen again and its not worth the trouble.  

Right, so I still do not understand the mechanism fully, but I would like to ask: hypothetically, if I completely cut both cables, will the P-brake be fully engaged or disengaged?

IOW, if it were stretched, and the brake is naturally disengaged, my assumption is that I would not be able to engage it. But I have the opposite problem: i cannot DIS-engage.

That seems like something else, perhaps a completely different issue. Another reason that I suspect the cold and wet weather might be a factor.

When I pull the lever, I do feel resistance. But upon release, it seems to quit resisting earlier than it used to. But only just a little. Car doesn't budge, though. It's not partial, its full, firm engagement at the wheel(s).

And yes, I put the handle all the way down... like three times.

Is it remotely possible that it is ice somewhere?

Along those lines, if one of the cables no longer slides thru its sheath, then that would line up with this behavior. I am going to hope that there is some debris from the PO in the console that is preventing the yoke from retracting fully. You know, somehing just super easy to correct. Hey, I can dream... but when I awake, I think a new cable or two is probably in my future.

My wife is reminding me that I have limited free time. I don't want to put it on a flatbed. I kinda don't trust the tow bubbas to not screw up my "special" car.

It depends. If your problem is a sticking caliper it's not the parking brake cable and that has to be diagnosed first by inspection. If you look under your car you might find that one of the cables extended by looking at the stretching of the cable boot and that will be the side that is most likely  bad. Then you have to determine if its the cable or the caliper by disconnecting the cable from the caliper and observe what is sticking.  You also have to keep in mind that both cables eventually terminate to the hand brake and are in away connected. If you look into the console you might see one side of the cable is uneven to the other side. If that is the case I would loosen the 10mm adjustment bolt which should relax the cable and then tighten it back up to see if one side is still uneven.  

Once you can isolate the bad cable by trying to move it back and forth then you can have a diagnoses rather than guessing.  Once you know whats up you can order the correct parts and replace.  Its as simple as that.  

Your issue with being able to engage the brake and have it stick is typical for both cable and caliper so you will still need to diagnose. 

Dev, you are awesome. All of that makes perfect sense. I did watch two console-side cable adjustment videos, and I did see that dual yoke/balancer thing in the console. Looks pretty straightforward.

I know that there is no diagnosis yet, but thinking ahead anyway:

If I find that a cable is mechanically seized, can I cut it or simply disengage it from the caliper if I wanted to drive it to my mechanic? My guess: yes indeed.

If it is a cable(s), and I want to replace it, but do it the "correct" way, could I cut the old cable off at the caliper, including the end collar (dunno what that is called), then sister up the new cable alongside the old one with generous amount of dup-tape, and use the existing cable boot to pull the new cable past the gas tank and into the console (or in the other direction), much like pulling cables and wires through walls and so forth? IOW, is there enough room in the cable's normal pathway to pull a smooth piggy-backed cable through (the tape must smooth out any shoulders in the overlapped sister joint)? Is the issue just just poor access, or must you absolutely have access to the whole path to get it fed through properly? LOL, we're talking about what, 30 inches at most?

If two cables don't fit, what about pulling a nylon cord thru with the existing cable, then using the cord to pull the new cable?

As far as I can tell right now, there is just a spring tensioner at the caliper end of the cable... is there more machinery than that down there (and I still wonder if it can get ice-locked)?

First if you want to replace. Inspect both and only replace the one that is bad.  Removing the cable from the caliper is easy as its a pin that holds it on the arm but if its rusted you might need to lubricate it and push it out.  

The problem you will have with removing the bad cable is the middle mounting bracket that is above the gas tank and not accessible. What I did was remove the mounting point near the caliper and the mounting point in the cabin and cut the cable on both ends so it is no visible.  

Cut a small slit in the boot to make it easy to pass the remnant out of the cabin.  On the caliper side undo but not completely the two rear most bolts that hold the gas tank so it drops down slightly.  Cut  as much as possible brake cable and tuck the visible remaining  under the tank.  

After that is done use some fishing wire from inside the cabin and push it though until it makes though the underside of the gas tank where the parking break exists.  Take your new cable and remove the mounting bracket that you will not be using so its easier to pass. Tie it to the fishing wire and pull it under and up into the cabin.  The rest is self explanatory as you will use the two mounting points to secure the cable and you just put everything back.   

One day if you ever have to drop the tank for any reason you can remove the remnant of the old cable.   

Thanks again. Makes sense. Given the implied aversion to removing the gas tank, I am going to assume that is a PitA, so I won't ask how hard it is.

Otherwise, this doesn't sound particularly difficult except for the tight space issue.

Now, what is a stuck caliper, and is it a terminal condition? Is it common, or even just uncommon, for one to work fine one day, then completely seize up overnight? Could the master cylinder have seized up in the "oh sh1t!" position (I will check all four wheels, the fronts should spin freely).

Thanks for helping me learn.

You can use a hair dyer on the low hanging part of the cables in front of the control arms.  Grab them and jerk back and forth. You can even go so far as to unhook the cables at the brake once it unfreezes by pulling the little clip and pulling the pins out.

Go to Toyo and get a couple of cables and extra little clips that act as cotter pins for the cable-to-brake pins. As far as replacement of the cables. Figure 5 hours. Is what it is.

Drive the car until the tank is empty. Pull the cubbies. Pull the console. Drop tank maybe 5 inches using a floor jack with wood to protect it. Pay attention to the routing. Yes, it's a pain, but nothing of any great difficulty. Dropping the tank sounds scary but it's not difficult at all.

Good luck.

@ispy

Thanks. I am getting a better visual idea of The Frog's anatomy. Gotta find that excellent cutaway image. Its around here somewhere... in UM's logo thread IIRC.

Anyway, I have about 2 gallons of gas in there, but I can't drive it, LOL. But you did say to disconnect the PB cables, I will do that first.

This is seriously derailing my Winter Wheel Restoration project, which is coming along rather nicely. Good news is that new cables are only a few dozen dollar bills.

Just realized something: given that there are two spring tensioners on the brake cables, and that the handle does return mostly back to disengaged, I think it is it a logical assumption that there is enough pull from the functioning cable to account for the "almost returns to normal" behavior of the handle. Seem possible, perhaps even likely?

Well I'll be damned...

Just got home from work. Trusty Corolla thermometer read 37F on the drive home. That's an important detail. You know where this is going...

E brake works just fine. Also discovered that the car WILL roll on my moderately-sloped driveway, when parked in 1st gear.

Wheel chocks in place, new habit.

Thanks for the advice and lessons, everyone. This may be continued, looks like I have an icy brakes problem. Unknown whether line was frozen, caliper somehow frozen, or the pinchy part in between, in any combination. It was cold and rainy last winter, no problems last year.

Thanks again.

The cables have water inside the jackets. They freeze when you pull the handbrake in cold weather. Now that it’s released (at least mostly.) Do not pull brake again. From this point forward in the cold particularly.  Park in reverse. I used wood blocks as well (yes it will actually roll in gear).  I discovered the issue on my car parked in a deck a couple winters ago.  Luckily with the tail of the car pulled up to the wall. I held the throttle at 3k and used the heat from the exhaust to melt trapped water in the cables. Jerked the cables and tada, they released.  Lesson learned. I would guess eventually the cables will not fully release over time.

Don’t be freaked by the job. It really is not all that difficult. It is straight forward and well documented, no real tricks, just dissect. You could trying tying string to the end (I forget which comes out) then pull new cable back.  Good luck.

I “fixed” my frozen parking brake cables.  The cables don’t freeze with water.   Somehow it’s a temperature and age problem where the plastic coating on the cables expands, or the housing contracts, and grabs the cable.   Mine “froze” in the middle of a hot summer.

I extracted the sticky cable linings and burned off the plastic coating with a torch.   Then I lubed up the cables with grease and reinserted them.    I am confident they will never “ freeze” again.  

This fix was a big pain in the butt.   Overall probably the same effort as replacing the entire cable assembly.   

https://www.mr2-spyder.com/community/regular-maintenance-upkeep/parking-brake-cable-repair/#post-909

My hack plan was to come up with a way to inject lithium grease (or some other non-silicone-based lubricant) into the jacket.

Initial implementation ideas involve fitting a hose around the outside of the jacket at one end, probably brake-side, and hose clamping it in place. The open end will then get a load of grease injected, and then that will be pumped through the entire length of the cable somehow. An air compressor is my first thought, or perhaps lower pressure could be tried first, like maybe squeezing it thru with a dried bottled water PET bottle, or possibly just straight from the squeeze tube.

A graphite powder and compressed air version also comes to mind, but seems like it wouldn't work as well - might clog immediately, provide poor coverage, etc.

If grease is too thick, maybe a light oil, but I would want to be sure it will lubricate and not soften the jacket lining which would certainly seize 'em up "real good".

I am completely in the dark regarding how tight the seal is between the cable and the openings at the ends of the jacket. If it is like a pneumatic seal, then this approach is DOA without a way to get the lube in the tube.

Any ideas, critiques?