Anyone else into vinyl?

In regards to equalization it can make a tremendous difference for any audio setup. Not all rooms are the same and there is always going to be reflections and absorptions of frequencies that can make audio systems sound terrible in one room and ok in another but not optimized to get the best out of it. An EQ can equalize the  frequencies for its environment back to the way the sound engineer has mixed  the recording where all of the instruments can be heard so you don't have offensive exaggerating frequencies ruining the sound quality. The EQ can tame peak offensive frequencies and boost others that are muted.  This is something that most people get wrong because you cant do it blindly by working the sliders to what you think sounds good until you are back to a reference.  You need a spectrum analyzer and pink noise to take a reading and then adjust the EQ until you can get it flat as possible but that is not always possible or desired but at least it will tame any system to sound its best.  I would say EQ tuning makes one of the biggest differences in over all audio quality for any system and it is often overlooked. 

Fortunately you can get a spectrum analyzer app for free on your smart phone and although it doesn't have a calibrated mic the app makes the most of your internal mic and can let you know how far off your equalization is.  You can also hook up a calibrated mic for your phone and be more precise.  These pro tools use to cost a fortune and now they are free.  

I've got about 50-100 records in the form of 78, 45 and 33's. I've got everything from Elton Jon, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, and the Jackson five to classical like Bach and even new age club records made for scratching.. About 10 years back I was into music production and loved using vinyl for its warm sound. The record player/turntable that I have is the Numark TT200. 

Posted by: @haloruler64

I still don't quite get why you need a preamp and an amp when an amp will do the job. Do all amps have a preamp stage then? 

 

 I want to address this part of your question so there is no confusion.  

Most high end  amps will not have a  preamp stage or the ability to bypass for good reason but there are some exceptions.

Most consumer stuff is about packaging and cost, not necessarily for sound as a priority. 

 Since these tube preamps became available and  popular many are adding them inline to existing preamps not for anything more than to put some glass on their source to give it that analog sound opposed to the cheap cold transistor sound. There are some transistor amplifiers  that can sound great but they are very expensive. This is nothing more than a cheat to make a budget system sound like a more expensive one.   Some people are actually making killer systems under $1000 by choosing the right Chinese components that are knockoffs.   

That is the reason why I suggested getting the tube preamp, not that you need it for your purpose but it is has become a no brainer in the audio world as an easy means to level up cheap.  

Ah gotcha, I figured that was the case (preamp stage in most consumer products). And I know about the desire to isolate components. I have a standalone DAC for my PC even though my motherboard has "HiFi sound card" built in. It is anything but HiFi. I also use the Creative SXFI AMP which has the DAC and amp on one chip, which is an interesting design choice but it works great for phone use. 

I added the preamp you suggested as well as the GE tubes to my cart. I will upgrade somewhere down the line. I am happy with my setup, but I always like to look into the future. To be clear, I can connect the Fluance PA10 phono preamp to your suggested preamp then that to the speakers, correct? I do want that tube sound. I had a tube amp from Monoprice, the big boy with quad tubes, and it was awful but I know that has nothing to do with analog design... it's just Monoprice. But I know the Chinese have done some AMAZING things to budget audio in the last decade.

I'm trying to pick up some Audioengine A2+ speakers right now for this setup, I really love them in aesthetics and size! Plus I love the Audioengine sound. 

There is a lot of Chinese crap out there that promises tube sound but doesn’t deliver the goods. One interesting thing I found is with a few tube headphone amps I auditioned did not wow me at all. I also had a class A non tube headphone amp that was nice and clean but I  went back to a regular DAC amp because it sounded better.  

However I found that tube sound was better benefited with a sound system where it has a chance to breath.  I grew up on solid state and thats all I have known except for auditioning other people’s tubes (Mcintosh) which also did not wow me probably because I was distracted or it was not mine to spend some time with.  

The Marantz 7 circuit copy preamp  I have now just floors me probably because the Marantz is legendary.  I now understand that warm doesn’t mean dull or lacking in detail. It’s the thick lush sound that I have been craving for as long as I can remember.  It great with classical and Jazz but even better with bluesy riffs.  The AC/DC track The Girls Got Rhythm sounds like real distortion from the guitar that pops. 

As to your question you can connect your phono pre-amp to the tube preamp and then plug that into the amp in your speakers,  

Hmm how many preamps can you chain together without ruining the sound quality 🤣 

I think you're right in that many sound systems you need to give TIME to. Every sound system sounds different, and different can be better but may not be interpreted as such. And you need to adjust to it and give your brain a chance to realize what it can offer. 

Posted by: @haloruler64

Hmm how many preamps can you chain together without ruining the sound quality 🤣 

I think you're right in that many sound systems you need to give TIME to. Every sound system sounds different, and different can be better but may not be interpreted as such. And you need to adjust to it and give your brain a chance to realize what it can offer. 

You have to be careful with the time to adjust thing which is valid but needs to be reasoned by trusting your ears. On one hand manufacturers will mention break in of components so you don’t return early and they hope you get use to the sound  think it’s getting better as a placebo effect.  On the other hand break in has some merit with some systems components like loosening up drivers and stabilizing some of the discrete electronic components.  It has been a topic of controversy that become long discussions on audio forums until one guy proved it with test equipment only to have someone come along and refute that the change was not significant enough to perceive.  

One thing that I do know is when the honeymoon is over with the new gear I will be cynical, discriminating and will burn it all down and sell if it gets on my nerves.  Every now and then I will end up with a system that just nails it but my biggest mistake is trading up components only to find out that I made a big mistake.  It’s not the end of the world but it kind of sucks.  

You mention Creative before.  I thought they had some of the best quality sound boards. I had some of their early  MP3 players and they used quality components that sounded great.  It’s too bad they had awful software integration.  

From my experience, break in is ABSOLUTELY real. I bought a pair of V-MODA Crossfade M-100 headphones. They're kinda known as the Beats that aren't shit, in the sense that they're bass heavy but they have amazing sound and are a lot of fun. Put them on and... 0 punch. I was very disappointed. Left them playing for 2 days off a spare phone and they came alive, lots of tight punchy bass. The Master & Dynamic MA770 also lacked in the low end, not just punch but overall  low end. After about a month, took longer than expected, it went from sounding great but flat to rich and warm and pleasant. I mean, we're talking BIG differences that can't be explained away with adjusting. 

Yeah I don't trade up. I've made many mistakes that way, in all aspects of life.I buy then sell.

The Creative Sound BlasterX G5 is a great DAC with some okay software. Turn it all off (there's a direct mode) and it's a really legit DAC. Turn it on and it's seriously a good gaming experience. Their virtual surround sound is pretty amazing, I have videos of me trailing people in first person shooters behind walls with my cursor and them popping out from behind a wall directly into my cursor. The accuracy is pretty astounding. Their new Outlier Gold earbuds are pretty good too, $100 but where Apple AirPods last 5 hours, these last 14 without charging from the case. 

I agree with break in.  The problem I had in the past is not trusting my ears when there was some difference in the  break in on some components.  I often have the anti placebo effect wondering if its just wishful thinking until I came across some Energy speakers that sounded terrible until they broke in and then it was a night and day difference. I have seen it with some headphones but where it is most apparent is with subwoofers as they generally sound tight with no bass extension until you get hours on them.  As far as power chords  and RCA cables there is a lot of hype around it but I never noticed much difference, however I do notice a big difference with refreshing old interconnects that have years on them. 

 I was hesitant to admit for many years is that I prefered good old treated paper drivers. These drivers are not considered exotic like all of the carbon kevlar, polypropylene stuff that flooded the market with the hype of having stiffer driver components to make it sound better. I did my best to believe in the technology of evolving audio but that was nothing more than a trap because a lot of it is bull to keep the rich buying into a lot of the overpriced nonsense that is out there.  Im back to paper drivers including the subwoofer and now I can honest with myself.

  There was a Spyderchat member that worked in the industry where he would set up for venues and advanced high fi systems builds. This member taught me a lot about audio tuning as well as many other things, but there is one thing that stood out which he kept  saying after the discussion, and that is trust your ears.  

Halo, I come from the world of abusing records (turntablism, scratching, DJing), but many of us are indeed listeners and collectors as well.  I almost never buy singles/doubles anymore since we have digital vinyl systems for that, but I DO collect full albums that are treated with care and will never see a backspin.  I have some tips:

1. Invest in some Gruv Glide.  You only need to apply it once to a record.  It does improve tracking, but also removes static and improves sound, especially with new records.  Also, a quick wipe with microfiber before you put a record on each time saves your needles from dust.  I can't tell if your cartridges are removable from the tonearm on your turntable, so they may be more difficult to access.  The old turntablist trick (if you have 2 turntables) is to use 1 needle to clean the other.

2. Don't store your albums flat or they will warp, store them like books on a bookshelf.  If you buy a brand new album and it is shrink-wrapped too tight it will be curved or warped.  One side will of the record will wobble.  Not as big a deal for listeners who don't touch the vinyl, but it's a death sentence for DJs.  Sometimes I will go out of my way to find a used record instead of shipping one brand new.

3. The Golden standard for turntables is still the Technics SL-1200.  Its direct drive motor and isolation has been the standard for decades.  It is something you buy for life.  You don't get better than this until you reach audiophile territory (thousands+).  Belt-driven platters can do weird things to motors (wow/flutter) if abused.

4. Lastly, the audiophile world is a trap.  It's a rich man's hobby.  I used to repair Rega turntables as a side job.  The tonearm assembly and cartridge cost as much as my Spyder.  The guy who owned it has a sound system worth 30k and an entire room in his house dedicated to it.  He told me he started out just like you, with a curiosity for vinyl. 

You can wipe a record with a microfiber? Doesn't that introduce static? 

So laying them flat warps them? Just curious, how? I have to figure out a place to stack them sideways. 

Haha I've been into audio for some time, so I know all about that trap. Listened to some crazy systems, both good and mediocre. 

Just curious, is a slight hum from a turntable's output when the needle isn't even down normal?

Vinyl can warp when laid flat because the center of the record where the label is is thicker than the rest of the record surface.  Left to it's own,  it can sag on the edges.  Its better to have on thin ridgid edge than laying flat . . . And keep them vertical -- not slanted. 

Just my 2 cents worth.  I've got a fairly decent collection . . . A result of having been a radio disc jocky for a long time earlier in my life. 

Awesome, thank you! I'll start keeping them vertical. 

Posted by: @haloruler64

You can wipe a record with a microfiber? Doesn't that introduce static? 

So laying them flat warps them? Just curious, how? I have to figure out a place to stack them sideways. 

Haha I've been into audio for some time, so I know all about that trap. Listened to some crazy systems, both good and mediocre. 

Just curious, is a slight hum from a turntable's output when the needle isn't even down normal?

There are different types of microfiber that introduce less static, but cleaning a record the first time solves most of the problem.  Each piece is vinyl is unique and not always in a good way.  Some are thick or thin, some of them are poorly produced, and some "shed" vinyl marbles every time they're played.

Does your TT have a separate ground wire out to your mixer/receiver?  They're should not be a hum but it's a bitch to chase down.  The headshell connection and RCA's can cause it - but it's obvious when u start jiggling.  The ground loop hum is the tricky one.  See if using a different outlet in the room changes anything.  I've lived in places where I could not get rid of it.

The turntable is grounded through the left RCA cable, says even if the preamp has a grounding lug it won't be used. Hum is almost inaudible through the Audioengine speakers. it's definitely the wiring or the MA770 speaker I tried. Here's the thing: The MA770 has no RCA jacks so I used an ancient RadioShack RCA to 1/4" adapter and a Radioshack 1/4 to 3.5mm adapter. This is what buzzed so loud it was annoying over the music. Like, you remove the RCAs from the preamp and touch them and the buzz is even louder. 

My house is a mess. Almost all outlets are not grounded, just 2 prong. Wiring is horrible, lots of ghetto stuff under the covers. Very few outlets. I doubt it's helping much. But again, with the Audioengine speakers, there's almost no hum and it's inaudible during music listening.