Ah, what could have been

180hp is just about right for a factory system for the 1ZZ to keep it reliable and safe.  They did factory turbo charged second generation  MX5 and I believe it was showing similar numbers.  

When we go outside that figure it just lowers the reliability.  TTE kit from those that examined it closely said it was very high quality as you would expect for a production car. 

Fortunately we have better options skirting the quality, reliability and cost for better performance.  If I had to do it allover again I would certainly do a simple turbo build and not mess with the engine internals. If and when the engine gets tired I would pick up a low millage  1ZZ and keep on going. 

@dev

If you are putting in a new powerplant, why choose another 1ZZ-FED? I guess if you still have the 1zz turbo, and all the dressing (from ECU, thru airbox, exhaust, etc.), then it would be much cheaper and easier.

But staring at an empty engine bay would really have me doing the math on a 2ZZ at the very least. An if effort isnt a big factor, then I would look further than that.

I am surprised at myself and how badly I am craving another 40+ hp (actually, another 80 would really be better). I didn't think I would, but everyone said I would. They were right, but I'm sure it was easy to predict.

Posted by: @nottamiata

@dev

If you are putting in a new powerplant, why choose another 1ZZ-FED? I guess if you still have the 1zz turbo, and all the dressing (from ECU, thru airbox, exhaust, etc.), then it would be much cheaper and easier.

But staring at an empty engine bay would really have me doing the math on a 2ZZ at the very least. An if effort isnt a big factor, then I would look further than that.

I am surprised at myself and how badly I am craving another 40+ hp (actually, another 80 would really be better). I didn't think I would, but everyone said I would. They were right, but I'm sure it was easy to predict.

Simply because its easy.  I would have the same components that work well for the 1ZZ turbo including the tune.  Engines are cheap for this car and the 1ZZ even with 200hp is plenty because its not about the horsepower its the torque.  170-190ftlb is more than anyone needs for a small lightweight roadster. 

Even with the TTE turbo its not about hp, its the quality of power it gives you.   

 For the 2ZZ its not about torque.  Its a different flavor or character that makes it enjoyable to drive when you get on the hot cam.  

 If we were all driving mustangs it would be appropriate to get the most hp possible but we don't. We are at a time where  computer processor speeds, megapixels, 24bit audio, 4k  and hp has become a meaningless metric.  The most important factor is fun and getting lost in it, the only reason you want the right amount of power is for the corners for this car.  

This brings me to my next point.  What the low boost turbo does is bridge the gap between all those that just want a little more torque. These fools invest way too much time on cams, headers and intakes and never get the right feel good amount even though the dyno calculation  in their head makes them think that.  Then we have 2ZZ swapers that think that 40hp is going to be fill that missing piece   but it becomes a disappointment.   Then we have those that need a k20 so they spend  more than the car is worth. And last we have those that are hp seekers that throw money down the rabbit hole trying to get 400hp because its never enough and money is no object because dyno bragging is more important rather than being afraid of their car. 

 With a quick spooling turbo kit for the 1ZZ , its the quickest way to bridge that gap where you don't have to be in-between having to second mortgage your house or come up short as you keep adding bolt ons and doubling down that you felt a little something. 

Plus getting the additional HP without turning 8 -9k RPMs makes more sense

I want 225hp/180tq out of this car, while keeping the majority of the creature comforts and the car under 2200lbs curb... I really don't see the need beyond that. The torque value is more important than the hp to me... Hence the supercharger build. The 2ZZ high cam is great fun but now that I have experience with this car along with my knowledge of Honda K series... If I got the chance to start over with said knowledge and the same budget, I'd have a K24A swap instead. The money doesn't matter much, I do 99% of my own work and it's a labor of love. 

When I first decided I was going to buy an MR2 the plan was to 2ZZ swap, then eventually turbo, with a goal of 280-300hp. After the swap, the more I drove the car the less I felt the need for big top end power. I've always enjoyed the corners more than the straights... And 300hp in this car would be a mess to handle without a boatload of suspension work. Sometimes lift can even become a handful if you hit it at the wrong part of a corner. I didn't want it to turn into a straight line car... So my direction changed. Now the goal is is a nice flat torque curve.

Also, that TTE MR-S is beautiful. I'm completely infatuated with PGP. 

Posted by: @cspidy

Plus getting the additional HP without turning 8 -9k RPMs makes more sense

True but high revving has its advantages which is power to weight. The 2ZZ may not have the torque but its able to get the most power from a small light weight package while keeping it NA.  There are major disadvantages with high strung motors like reliability and the K20 and 2ZZ is an exception  because they are very reliable.  A 2ZZ can shine in light weight cars like ours and get better when you shed weight.  like with race bikes it is a strategy of either going with a V twin or a high revving 4 to win a race so the choices are blurred and there is no clear superior layout.  

I have had long tiresome arguments on Spyderchat regarding the weight balance of the motor and it was nice to hear the master who built the Techno Sprits car stress how important it was to him.  

Posted by: @marsrock7

I want 225hp/180tq out of this car, while keeping the majority of the creature comforts and the car under 2200lbs curb... I really don't see the need beyond that. The torque value is more important than the hp to me... Hence the supercharger build. The 2ZZ high cam is great fun but now that I have experience with this car along with my knowledge of Honda K series... If I got the chance to start over with said knowledge and the same budget, I'd have a K24A swap instead. The money doesn't matter much, I do 99% of my own work and it's a labor of love. 

When I first decided I was going to buy an MR2 the plan was to 2ZZ swap, then eventually turbo, with a goal of 280-300hp. After the swap, the more I drove the car the less I felt the need for big top end power. I've always enjoyed the corners more than the straights... And 300hp in this car would be a mess to handle without a boatload of suspension work. Sometimes lift can even become a handful if you hit it at the wrong part of a corner. I didn't want it to turn into a straight line car... So my direction changed. Now the goal is is a nice flat torque curve.

Also, that TTE MR-S is beautiful. I'm completely infatuated with PGP. 

That sounds very ideal. With the supercharger you do get rid of that elasticity of the turbo.  Going with more power then that is betting against yourself because nothing breaks things sooner than more hp.    This is where many get it wrong because the car cannot sustain more power especially the transmission. If you have to go beyond that amount you will also need to work on internals and now we are at a point where the engine longterm reliability will fail.  It gets very expense once you cross 200ftlbs of torque and then you end up with a car that is just too dangerous to enjoy because you cant just mash the pedal.  

 One of the really nice things about the stock Spyder has always been its limits that makes it fun to mash the pedal at the right time coming out of a turn.  Its also fun to row through the gears.   That gets lost once you add too much power. 

     Then you have those that widen the tires and suck the life out of the car.  If you want the car to feel fast there is no better joy than matching the tires to the power where it feels like a handful but still within your grasp.    

Like Marsrock if I were to do it again, I would go Kseries. In lieu of a K, I would like to eventually put in a supercharger. I always figured 240hp 200ft/lbs was the goal. Thinking 1:10 power to curb weight. I would also re-gear to a shorter set up with 6th gear remaining long. Or maybe wait for an electric swap.

If you go supercharged I recommend an intake air temp sensor. You'll be surprised how high the temps get if you road race.

I was surprised how high they got in my Cooper Works.

@wilcomr-s

Yup! Definitely going to be watching IATs, especially without an intercooler. My gauge setup will be a wideband, an oil temp/pressure combo, and dual IAT. I want to see the temps pre and post blower, as well as the effectiveness of my meth injection.

you know I have has my car since 2004. I can tell you that I have wanted more HP from it zero times in all those years. I have always been of the mindset that if you want more power buy a more powerful car. With a spyder and my skillset, I feel I can safely take that car to 60 maybe 70% of its potential on a public road and not get sent to jail or die. in 911, a C5 or C6 I could maybe enjoy 30-40 percent of what the car has to offer.

Seriously the whole idea of the small light roadster is to be engaged on the road not dominating someone else. This community always used to speak of permigrin - this phenomena was well established to be independent of HP. Maybe this is just because I am an old fucker now and my reflexes are shit compared to 20 years ago but even though I drive the car less and less when I do drive it I have a smile on my face.

I'm not a true car guy and definitely not a gearhead.  When y'all talk technical "stuff", it's pretty much way over my head -- which is why I value this community's knowledge when it comes to problem solving with my car.  I know nothing of pushing a car to its limits and I haven't gotten a speeding ticket in over a decade.  The spyder gives me permagrin.   It's fun to drive, looks great (beauty is in the eye of the beholder) and is a conversation starter.   For me, it's a go kart with a fancy body.   I appreciate T-bone's observation regarding fewer mentions of permagrin in these threads over the years.  I hadn't noticed until he pointed that out.   For me it really is all about the permagrin and I appreciate  T-bone for that reminder.

Posted by: @uncle-mush

I'm not a true car guy and definitely not a gearhead.  

 Not true.  You and Tbone are the quintessential car guys and I would say even more than those that give the appearance of being motor heads. There are a lot of fake car guys out there that recite talking points and when you ask them something specific they get mad. 

 There are many that put out complicated explanations to make themselves seem smart and for a time I use to think that too until you actually read what is written and redo the math. Self proclaimed expertise is taken as  word when its needs to be verified which is often not done and its stupid to follow people blindly on the internet.  Some write up a more complicated way to do something selling it as an easy way  when they just overcomplicated the situation. Just follow the BGB and then take the short cut as food for thought.  

A real car guy knows that this car is not a race car but a fun car that was meant for the roads, not a track as that is an optional endeavor  but if you want to listen to those voices choose someone with a winning franchise because they know what they are doing to give them that edge. 

Posted by: @dev

it was nice to hear the master who built the Techno Sprits car stress how important it was to him.  

I have my road only! car down to 900 kilos; ready to drive weighed on a commercial bridge.

Opened up the exhaust, OEM intake save for the quarter panel deduct. 

Make it 900 kg / 155 hp = 5.8 kg/hp. from 1060 / 138 = 7.7 kg/hp.  say a quarter quicker.  The best bit is that it is quicker steering, through corners, brakes better.

For the rest minimal bracing, AD08R shod ENKEI RPF, p.a.s. delete, a bit of aero, some faffing to get the suspension/alignment right.

Now  the balance on the local mountain roads is to mý liking and the flexible 1ZZ is just the ticket. It gets you through corners fast enough without needing to feather the pedal with a tight bum. I don´t want more horses at higher revs and turbo torque low down would make it véry tricky; on the real world roads wet patches in the shade, broken up repairs, dried mud in/though corners are not unexpected; just the whére. I´d happily fit a lighter bonnet, rear lid, even windscreen though 😎